In our Ask FGBC Anything video series, listeners submit questions that we then answer in a video format.

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

god, jesus, christianity, atheist, paul, christian apologetics, person, ethical dimension, gospel, truth, people, approach, evangelism, apologetics, love, acts, light, speaks, creator, faith

SPEAKERS

Pastor Jim Butler, Pastor Mike Kirkpatrick, Wim Kerkhoff,

Wim Kerkhoff  00:06

Question from Laurie: how do you explain to a diehard non-believer how and why you believe God is real? A person who has read all sorts of books discrediting the truth of God?

Pastor Jim Butler  00:18

Well, I’d want to make a distinction between how I know personally, you know, within me, the subjective, versus the objective content of Christianity, and I’d probably want to move the discussion more into the objective content of Christianity. Obviously, why I believe it’s true is because God saved me, God changed my heart, God gave me faith and repentance. That’s an experience the atheist doesn’t have. And he hears that. And he thinks, Well, you know, that’s all fine and well for you. But it does nothing in terms of, you know, his breaking down his resistance to the Scripture. So I think ultimately, when we, when we discuss truth with an atheist, the idea is, is that we not convince them of our religious experience, but the truth content of Christianity. And I would say the one of the things that we do first is recognize the apostle Paul in Romans one argues from the effect or the creation to the Creator. In other words, Paul basically says, when we look out in the world around us, it resonates, that God made, that God created, that God is the one who put all these things into place. So I would definitely use that tact with that particular person try to preach or teach or tell him that there is a God who is responsible for everything that we see around us. And then based on that, then I would start leading into the realm or the categories of special revelation, you know, who Jesus is, what the purpose for Jesus coming is. And I think that oftentimes, you know, atheists, if they’ve heard the gospel, it hasn’t been, you know, a good robust explanation, you know, in my experience dealing with either religious or non-religious people. And, you know, I’ve talked to them, and they’ll say things like, you know, I grew up in a church, and I’ve been to church, and I never heard that before. Now, I’m not a PhD. I’m not the rocket scientist. That’s not the point. The point is, they’re getting very shallow, shallow vapor approaches to Christianity. And I think we’re not doing ourselves any favors when we can’t articulate the truth of what we believe. So I want to move it out of the realm of my subjective belief in Jesus, or God, to the object of certainty of Christianity, as it’s revealed in Holy Scripture.

Pastor Mike Kirkpatrick  02:53

Yeah, I think just piggybacking off of that, I think, you know, Paul does and acts 17. In Acts 14, he does argue from the light of nature and the fact that all in Him we live and move and have our being. But so we move from the realm of general revelation that there is there is a God. But then we go to show by way of special revelation, who this God is and what He has done in Christ Jesus. And so the reality is only God can change their change their minds and hearts. But certainly we can reason from the light of nature and Scripture with them and hope and pray that, that he works in them.

Pastor Jim Butler  03:29

I would say in light of the Acts 17 reference, you know, when you’re talking to an atheist or somebody that is about an avowed opponent of God and His gospel, never underestimate the ethical element, you know, oh, well, I’ve studied this the truth of Christianity, and I’ve realized that it’s just fake. It’s false. I’ve studied the philosophical systems of the world and I have determined, there can sound like an intellectualism and a healthy, you know, skepticism. Sometimes it’s just ethical. Sometimes people love the sand. You know, when we look at Acts 17, what drove Paul to preach the way Paul preached at the Areopagus? Well, when it comes to Athens, it says that his spirit is provoked within him because the city was given over the idols. So in his preaching, he doesn’t leave that on dealt with, he makes sure he hammers them on the fact that they were idolaters. You know, Peter, preaching on the day of Pentecost to Jerusalem centers. This wasn’t just a question of does Jesus check off the boxes as the Messiah promised in the Old Testament? Now he says in Acts 2:36, this Jesus whom you crucified, God has raised up he’s made Him both Lord and Christ. So the person that says, Well, I’m an intellect intellectual, I’ve got a PhD and Christianity is just so much nonsense. Hey, what’s your girlfriend’s name?  What kind of bank bank account have you comprised from theft? I’m not saying you necessarily challenge him in this way. But there’s an ethical dimension, man in sin doesn’t come to the light, John 3, the darkness doesn’t come to the light, because it doesn’t want its darkness exposed. So I, you know, I don’t say go head and hammer them on every sin they’ve ever thought. But realize there is an ethical dimension. It’s not just intellectual I disagree with the truth of Christianity. Yeah, but you’ve got a prejudice against it already. Because you love sin. Yeah.

Wim Kerkhoff  05:36

Obviously, Ray Comfort has the 1000s of videos where he does this. He always starts with creation, right? Look at the wonder of the human eye and like, how could that have happened? That’s right, everything. And things like this table didn’t exist without being created this room the city, without some men thinking it and putting it together. That’s right. And then he gets into Have you still wanted to be alive? That’s right.

Pastor Jim Butler  05:57

Yeah, for sure. That’s a good approach. But one one final thing, though, is that, and I appreciate that approach. But I think that we’re always looking for the approach. Where’s the formula? Well, how do I speak? You know what people are people, everybody’s got their own background, they’ve got their own present. They’ve got their own challenges, their own issues. So you know, when we come to, you know, the defense of the faith or Christian apologetics, or when we come to, you know, these issues of what about this person? It’s hard to pigeonhole that, you know, there’s there’s so many different things. And there’s been so many approaches in Christian apologetics. Well, if you don’t do it this way, you’re not really doing it at all. You don’t come to it this way, then you’re not doing it. Right. I just don’t see it that way. I see, you know, flexibility. I see, you know, difference in the way that persons are treated and handled by persons in the New Testament. You know, the way that Jesus speaks to the religious leaders is a lot more stern and harsh than he speaks to the woman at the well. The apostle Paul, as Mike said, Acts 14, Acts 17, he highlights the fact that God is creator. Why is that because it’s a gentile or pagan or heathen audience that didn’t have that concept of Yahweh as creator. When he’s in the synagogues. He usually isn’t discoursing about creation, he’s usually telling them that Jesus is the Messiah. So this idea that evangelism and apologetics must always look like this. I don’t think it’s helping anybody. I think it creates a burden. It creates pride on the part of those who do it Do do do it that way. And it just, I think, keeps people from just talking to centers. You know, in the final analysis, what’s evangelism and what’s apologetics? Talking to sinners, telling them the truth about God’s holiness, their sinfulness and the redemption that is in Jesus Christ. So when we formulate make it formulaic, or we make it a system or we have this method, the method becomes more important than the sinner that we’re talking to. You know, I want to evangelize pastor, go out and tell somebody about Jesus. I don’t want to defend the faith. Well, I’d say learn the faith. Well, I’d say that with evangelism, and then defend the faith. Just live, you’ll get plenty opportunities to evangelize and do apologetics.

Pastor Mike Kirkpatrick  08:30

And that seems to be Peters emphasis in 1 Peter 3 where we get that word for defense. He says, Be ready to give an answer for the face. When you’re asked the asking seems to be implied in the context seems to be when you’re suffering and when you’re going through it. You’re not whining or grumbling or complaining, you’re acting like Christ, in that moment, and Christ will give his people the strength they need in those moments to act in such a way and and then that can be the platform for which we then share the gospel with others. But that’s something all can do. What is Christ done? For me? That is the message of, of hope that seems to be in Christ, the gospel and its work in the life of the one who’s speaking and so and even Philippians 2, how do we shine as lights? We don’t grumble or complain, right? We don’t be we don’t have to be jerks for Jesus. Unfortunately, I think I grumble and complain more than anybody. But certainly the life that we leadm well, it’s not the gospel, it’s a platform for us to potentially share the gospel with fellow with with sinners. Yeah,

Pastor Jim Butler  09:32

yeah. And John nine, that man that was born blind, that Jesus healed and then he faces all that heat from the from the religious leaders and I love that that you know, basically and this is the Jim Butler paraphrase. I don’t know what y’all are going on about, but I was blind and now I see! You know, if if, if that’s your testimony to some senator that you meet on the subway, praise God! And of course you tell them why now you see, it’s because of Jesus. So I think we we have a knack in the church to overly complicate things. We got to have, you know, all these different structures in place. Just go talk to people about Jesus. That’s okay.

Wim Kerkhoff  10:14

Yeah, yeah, I’m getting we can’t save people and it’s one conversation at a time just putting up someone’s a pebble in their shoe. That’s something to think about.

Pastor Jim Butler  10:21

That’s right. It’s what happened with us. Yeah, right.

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